HR Mavericks

Eddy’s HR Mavericks Podcast

What Is a Veteran-Ready Employer? w/ Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz

In episode 54, we talk with Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz to discuss the challenges that veterans face in the civilian world and learn how to become a veteran-ready employer.
Episode 54
Your company might be veteran-friendly—but is it veteran-ready? While most businesses are happy to hire veterans, they haven’t taken the steps needed to fully support them in the workplace. On today’s episode of the HR Mavericks podcast, I met with Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz, founder and president at Vanguard Veteran, to discuss the challenges that veterans face in the civilian world and learn how to become a veteran-ready employer. We talked about…
  • The traits that make veterans great employees
  • Myths and misconceptions about people in the military
  • The difference between veteran-friendly and veteran-ready
  • How to identify the transferable skills of veterans
  • Tips for recruiting and interviewing veterans
  • Being aware of the differences between military and civilian culture
  • Best practices for working with veterans
Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz
Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz
Full Transcript
Garrett Jestice: Welcome to the next episode of the HR Mavericks podcast. I'm Garrett Jestice and today I'm joined by retired Lieutenant Colonel, Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz who's the founder and president at Vanguard Veteran. Kathy, how are you doing today? 

Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz: Hey Garrett. I'm super thanks so much for taking the time to learn about Vanguard veteran. And how everybody listening can become veteran champions.

Garrett Jestice: Thank you so much for joining the show today. We're excited to get in and hear about your background and your company and what you do before we do that. Tell our listeners a little bit more about you about your career and give us the overview of your company. 

Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz: Great. Thank you. I spent 29 years in the air force, active duty guard and reserve after growing up as a Navy kid.

Real, real quick, I went to a French speaking preschool in Paris, France. Spoke French fluently as a young kid, probably even better than I spoke English, honestly. And then in the middle of my junior year in high school, another good Navy story. My dad picked me up and moved me to a small island in the north Atlantic, where I graduated from a class of 30 in a department of defense high school in Keflavik Iceland. At, at the right old age of 16, if you don't think that makes an impact on your life. I mean, you know, what's, you know, what's going on in your life when you're 16, right? Yeah. You just got your driver's license, your first boyfriend, you know, I, I was a varsity cheerleader.

I had the strongest sense of belonging I'd ever, ever known. So that's all part of the backstory really. And then, um, before the age of 35, I'd lived in about 20 different communities. Wow, not houses communities. And so that's an important part of military culture. And I share that quick anecdote because it sort of set the stage for my life's calling.

I was privileged, uh, when I was in the Ohio Air National Guard to start a never been done before outreach office in response to 9-11 to educate and engage civilians in support of troops and their families. Yeah. Cause you know, we don't really have a good mechanism for that in our country and it's a huge gap.

So we started with employers that was the primary purpose because 80% of our workforce in the guard was part-time military. So most of them either had a full-time employer or they were going to college to get their degree and the military was helping to fund that. So. About five years ago after I retired from the Ohio National Guard, I started Vanguard Veteran to continue my life's calling of equipping civilians to become veteran champions.

Because again, it's a huge gap in our society. I mean, I know, I know firsthand that, uh, Americans love the military, trust the military, appreciate the military. Yeah. And. Many people come home without the connectivity that they need to really maximize their quality of life. Yeah. Some come home broken most do not come or most are not broken from military service mm-hmm , but Vanguard, veteran, equips employers to to find and keep veteran talent.

I call myself the veteran hiring concierge. . I help equip volunteer military ministry leaders to start these places of connection inside places of worship. I am the military ministry builder. Awesome. So, so I am incredibly passionate about what I do because I've lived it. Yeah. I, you know, personally, as a, as a military kid, a military officer, I'm also a military wife.

My husband was an active duty career soldier and a combat veteran. Hmm. My son served for a while. And so I've seen it from lots of different vantage points. And through my experience, Garrett, with the Ohio National Guard, our Outreach Office, I really saw firsthand how much satisfaction. Rolling up your sleeves, learning just a little bit of stuff.

Mm-hmm and taking action. How much satisfaction that gives to our citizenry to do what they can for service members, veterans, and their families. It's, it's really a, a good news story, but we there's a lot more education familiarization and other things that, that need to be taken into consideration to, to really do it well.

Yeah. To bring, to bring our service members all the way. 

Garrett Jestice: Well, so that's, that's excellent. We are super excited to have you on the show. And I guess first and foremost, thank you for your service. Like your background says, for those who are watching the video, we're gonna go beyond that today. You know, we, we do appreciate your service and all of those who have served.

I think all of us, whether we've served individually, we know someone, whether a family member. A friend who has served for me, you know, it's, it's my father-in-law, it's my grandfather, it's my brother-in-law who have all served in the military and have, you know, their own experiences. So I think you're absolutely right.

You know, what more can we do to help support, you know, those, um, service members who are coming home and helping them be integrated yes. Into, uh, further employment and there's, there's different things we can do. And that's what we wanna talk about today. 

Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz: Right. Exactly. And, uh, just real quick, who helped you understand how to perform that, how to do that for all these different veterans, you know, in life, did anybody by and say, Hey, would you consider doing X, Y, or Z for your loved ones? Or for, you know, no one does that, right? No one did. Yeah. Yeah. You have to figure it out on your own. So what Garrett's talking about is my book Beyond Thank You For Your Service: The Veteran Champion Handbook For Civilians. You can find it on Amazon and there's chapters for employers, lawyers, healthcare providers, general community members, mayors, et cetera, and clergy. And so there's. Excellent concrete, actionable steps that any citizen can take, even as a neighbor, right? Yeah. Or a fellow church, uh, a fellow, you know, member in your place of worship mm-hmm

Um, but today we wanna zero in on how important employers are and how it benefits them to hire this incredible talent. 

Garrett Jestice: That's excellent. We, we will be for sure. Add a link to where you can find that book from Kathy on Amazon, in the show notes. So if you are listening to this, maybe you're driving in the car somewhere.

Don't worry about scribbling that down real quick. Stay safe. Keep your eyes on the road. We'll we'll come back and, uh, look in the show notes and that's where we'll drop the link in. So thank you. So Kathy, we wanna talk today, just like you mentioned on specifically about this topic of a veteran ready employer and what does that mean?

And so really to kind of start off, start this off, uh, this conversation, um, I, I wanna just kind of open up at the very highest level. Why do you think that companies should consider hiring more veterans? 

Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz: Research shows that veterans are more productive and more mission focused than their non veteran counterparts.

The society of the society of human resource management foundation did a study in about 2019. I said, I think, and 68% of employers felt that veterans were better than if not much better than employees than that people who hadn't served mm-hmm, Also they're more educated and they are more loyal and tend to stay longer, uh, really after their first post-military job when, when there's really a good match.

And so you, you know what the answer is to this question? Yeah. Why we make good employees? I mean, we have a, I love to say a getter done mentality. Yeah. I mean, we have a, we have a, a zero tolerance for mission failure. We are disciplined. We show up on time. We know how to lead. We know how to follow mm-hmm we are, we are tech savvy, you know, for the most part.

And, you know, we know we really appreciate developing people around us in, in, in the military, uh, our it's it's our job to develop the people that, uh, we call 'em our subordinates. Yeah. Because, because guess what, any of us could get hit by a bus at any time and so that other person needs to be able to step into your role.

Yeah. So those are some of the primary reasons, you know, and then we haven't even talked about values. Oh my gosh. You know? Yeah. Integrity service before self excellence. There's just a, a lot of pride instilled in us. And our, our, our military branches are fundamentally values based. Mm-hmm . Yeah, so that, that's the fact .

We have great character and we have highly transferable skills. 

Garrett Jestice: Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. I think that's why, you know, all of us, if you know, someone in the military, chances are you really admire that person. Oh, thank you. Who is in the military or who had formally served? And I think it's all of those reasons that you just mentioned right there.

So, you know, first and foremost, they make great employees and they're the type of employees that any business owner would wanna hire. So, you know, what, what are the common myths or misconceptions that you'd be really clarified when it comes to hiring veterans? Why don't more companies hire more veterans?.

Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz: Okay. Let me back up just a minute. If I may and address something you, something you started with Garrett, and that is what does veteran ready mean. Okay. Sure. And I just, just wanna draw a real quick distinction between veteran friendly and veteran ready. Now I think that the business case for hiring veterans is pretty clear.

The unemployment rate for veteran the unemployment rate for veterans is consistently lower. Than that for civilian unemployment. Mm-hmm okay. And so employers, uh, practically every employer is veteran friendly. Mm-hmm because they, they know that veterans produce and, you know, show up, but not every employer is veteran ready.

And so in essence, the big, the concept is that you have processes in place that you are, you are an architect and not just advocate, you know, architects have blueprints, so a veteran ready employer would have metrics. They would understand the tools that they need for, to Excel at hiring. They would, they would, uh, uh, implement some of the, uh, retention tactics.

They they're in it for the long haul. Mm-hmm they list they listen to the voice of the veteran and it, in this day and age it's, you know, it's real interesting because there isn't really a solid. Definition for veteran ready? Depend. Depends on who you ask. Mm-hmm some people say it's a military effective organization.

Um, but the point is it, it, it's not ad hoc. It's gotta be organized. It's gotta be evaluated and it's gotta be improved for the long haul. Yeah. And that, that makes you can have veteran ready and who better to do that and lead that the than an HR. Yeah. 

Garrett Jestice: I'm so glad you made that point. And just, just if I can put a plug in there, I think to me what stands out about that?

And I, and I love that distinction between veteran ready and veteran friendly. Cause I think most businesses, like you mentioned are veteran friendly. Yes. The difference to me there is like the proactivity. Yes. When you're veteran ready, you're being proactive and you're trying to attract those types employees, future employees, right? Mm-hmm yes. And you're doing things proactively rather than just hoping and opportunistically. If someone comes along and applies, right. 

Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz: Well put, yeah. And it, and it's integrated into everything in your organization, especially for larger companies, you know, the, the D E and I, the corporate citizenship, right.

The volunteering and a, and philanthropy, it's all aligned within your veteran hiring initiative. It's not, you know, separate pillars and stove piped mm-hmm . Um, uh, and so it, it, it just has to be, you know, very fluid evaluated and improved all the time and, you know, willing to stick through, you know, when things don't go well or when you feel frustrated just being in it for the long haul is really an important component to this. Yeah. 

Garrett Jestice: So, so that's so right. I, I, I can, can totally see that. So going back to this original question. Yes. What, if anything, what are, what are the common myths or misconceptions that might need to be clarified when it comes to hiring veterans?

Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz: Well, you know, most of us know what we know or take, take our impressions from the television set, right? Yeah. Well, you know, what do we see on TV about military people? Well, you you've got the, the Drill Sergeant who's barking orders, right? Or. Or you've got, or you've got the, the veteran who's homeless on the side of the street or, or, or, you know, unfortunately, you know, some veterans do terrible things because they're sick.

Right? Yeah. Um, and, and so, you know, some of the misconceptions are first and foremost, that everybody has PTSD post-traumatic stress disorder. Mm-hmm that is absolutely wrong. The VA says that Iraq and Afghanistan, veterans about 20% may have it. So 80% don't right. Yeah. All right. And, um, PTSD does not necessarily make you more violent and the triggers can be managed well.

Yeah. Okay. That's that's the myth busting on that one. Mm-hmm the, the other piece is, uh, okay. Maybe veterans can only bark orders, right? Mm-hmm well, no leadership 1 0 1 is that, uh, leadership is influenced nothing more, nothing less. John Maxwell teaches that. And I love that. And so the only way you build influence is by building trusting relationships and where it's more important to have a trusting relationship than someone who trains to go to war and goes to war to defend freedom. Okay. Now, now our, our, our, our units have to be disciplined, responsive, know their role on the team and follow orders or the mission may not succeed. And probably won't mm-hmm okay.

So, so the way we communicate our discipline and our ability to have direct firm communication can be pretty well ingrained and, you know, frankly, because could probably use some softening mm-hmm post post-military service, but it is so untrue that all military people, all they can do is bar orders. Yeah.

They can follow orders. They know how to be a team player. That's a big part of our DNA. Yeah. And then, um, the, the, the direct communication style, I've kind of, I've kind of hit on that. Um, uh, my husband's so funny. He, he would say to people are just using up good army oxygen. Right. and I'd be like, I'd be like, okay.

I was air force. What the heck does that mean? Anyway? but, but what it means is, you know, bluff bottom line up front, let's get to the point. Okay. Yeah. Now you can get to the point with a smile on your face and a nice to of voice mm-hmm right. Or you can. Get to the bottom line, you know, a lot more gruffer or whatever.

. And so, um, you know, military people are highly coachable. Yeah. They, they are used to receiving feedback. Um, they, they know they are confident. And yet some people might feel that that's bossy and, or some people may be intimidated by that confidence. Mm-hmm right. So those are some of the, the myths and misconceptions.

Uh, I think that's a pretty good overview. 

Garrett Jestice: Those are great. No, those are great. I'm so glad that you addressed each of those. And I would say, you know, most competent employers, those are the attributes that they want in employees again, right. Is they want someone who's confident yet coachable and who can speak up in the right way and speak their mind.

So I think all of those things are again, just plugs for why should you hire veterans. Right. 

Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz: Well, and. Our military people are used to getting feedback. Okay. Mm-hmm we evaluate everything that we do. And if you don't give them feedback, they probably think everything is okay. Mm-hmm and, uh, military people, you know, when they, when they take off their uniform, it's such a loss of identity.

They lose, we lose our buddies, we lose our, yeah. We lose, we lose so much. And research says that 55% of, of, uh, veterans feel disconnected from mainstream America. Hm. So, so the first day you step foot in, in a new job, you just feel like a fish outta water. You don't know what clothes to wear. Yeah. You, you don't, I mean, there's just so many questions that you have and you feel just, you know, very inadequate. Uh, maybe most people feel like it's an imposter syndrome because I know how to do my job in the military, and I know how to act in the military, but I don't know either of those things more often than not when I take my first civilian job. So, you know, coaching and support's important, 

Garrett Jestice: that's such a good point.

And so I think that kind of leads into our next. The next question that I have for you. So, you know, as a small business, we've already, you know, proven the point probably to death at this point, you should hire veterans. You need to do it. We've also talked about how you need to be proactive. You need to be veteran ready, not just veteran friendly.

Right. And so moving on to that next step, we have these awesome veterans out there. How does a small business go about in a proactive way, sourcing and interviewing military talent to again, attract that talent. That is so great to their workforce. 

Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz: Okay. First tip is to talk to your department of veterans services in your state, kind of as the leading subject matter expert. Now, departments focus more on benefits than they do on employment, but they probably have a good feel as to where you might be able to go to source veteran talent.

Number two, there are American job centers throughout the nation that are in your county buildings. Uh, they most states if not all. Give veterans preferential treatment and you can, and they're earmarked in the job boards. Okay. Okay. Those are two great sources. Then the more informal sources, uh, every community has stronger than other, uh, non-profits like Goodwill mm-hmm or US Vets, uh, that have programs or P uh, P3 or Marine for life mm-hmm . The National Guard has programs takes a little bit of work to find those people mm-hmm and to develop relationships, but that's where the veteran hiring concierge comes in. Mm-hmm I know, I know where to look and how to, uh, connect with these people. So, uh, just kind of starts small and dipping your toe in the water.

And the other thing that's really important is attend the veteran events in your communities and wear your shirt with your logo on it. Yeah. If you, if you can donate money, be sponsors to veteran focused events. Mm-hmm okay. And you know, other things like, uh, doing your messaging on your website, uh, is, is really important.

So people know you're serious about, uh, hiring veterans. Yeah. So those are some sources. Um, the other que the other part of the question was 

Garrett Jestice: interviewing. So how, you know, the first part is like, how do we find and source, and then what else do we need to do to make sure that there's a great interviewing environ?

Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz: I would encourage you to take a military culture training course, which of course I offer so that you, so that you aren't put off by the rigid body posture by the yes ma'am no ma'am yes, sir. No, sir. By the inability to initiate conversation or just the incredible nervousness, particularly, uh, for probably our, our youngest, our younger service members, but realize Garrett that many of our veteran job seekers have never had a job interview. Yeah. Okay. The, the military hiring system, depending on what branch of the service you're in is very different. Mm-hmm and so they're probably very nervous and they probably speak in acronyms. And so that needs to be addressed. So interviewing, you know, just really try to put the person at ease.

Um, ask questions about, you know, where were you stationed? What did you like best? What, what, what did you appreciate about the military? You know, get him, try to get him to calm down a little bit. And then the behavioral style questions, as you know, for most candidates is, is really the best. And, um, you know, trying to ask leading questions so that they can evaluate the impact they made in their civilian jobs will get them far. And so it's really the, the job seeker's job to come prepared with a re with a resume that that's not all military talk, right? Yeah. And it's the veteran job seeker's job to be prepared and hopefully somewhat comfortable for the job interview. But, uh, we have a ways to go really to.

To help, uh, our service members really do that and, you know, just stay away from questions like, you know, of course, do you have PTSD? And of course, did you ever kill anyone? I mean, yeah, absolutely, you don't say those things. Of course. Isn't a job interview. I just thought I would mention them for, uh, for you go to the order, if you will.

And one other big, important point is know what military skills translators are. 

Garrett Jestice: Yeah. I want to get to that in just a minute. One thought that I had before we do that though, is, um, you know, it really sounds to me like. It's just a cultural difference, right? Yes. Yes. And we need to make sure that as an organization, if we are going to be veteran ready, that we understand the different culture of where these people are coming from.

Just like if we were, you know, actively hiring. One race or population over another, there might be differences in culture there. Yes. Right. Hiring in Japan might be completely different than hiring in the US. Right. So understanding the cultural differences there and making sure that you can tailor. To some of those cultural differences is helps you to be more veteran ready?

Is that right? 

Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz: A hundred percent. And I really encourage all the listeners, all the HR professionals, if you would look at that resume a first or a second time, be willing to hire for character and be willing to train. Okay. Yeah. We, we, military people, that's all we do most. That's a lot of what we do is train for this job and train for that job and move and, you know, highly adaptable and flexible.

And, you know, it was interesting when, when I was, when I took my, uh, my, my first full-time position in the guard, my military supervisor hired me for character and trainability not because I had relevant job skills I had to. So, so it, it works in, in, in, uh, in, in the civilian world, it works in the mil military world.

And those, those, uh, work attributes and values will, will carry the day. Yeah. And you will really be proud of the investment you made in that military people even their resume does not exactly match the specific job that you're looking for. 

Garrett Jestice: So great point. And to that though, I want to get to what you mentioned before.

Tell us a little bit more about military skills translators. What are they, how they work and why should, you know, small businesses be aware of them? 

Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz: This is an absolutely essential thing for you to look up, just put in military skills, translators and Google. I particularly like O apostrophe, N E T, O'Net. Basically, are you familiar with it?

I am actually, yes. Oh, great. Have you ever used the military crosswalk feature?

Garrett Jestice: I have not. No.

Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz: All all right. Well, I don't mean to call you out on that buddy, but that's next? Yep. Yeah, we'll do it. Yeah. Yeah. It's really great. Because for instance, quick story, an 11 Bravo in the army is an infantry 

to know what that. 

Garrett Jestice: On the, on the feet, on the ground. Right, 

Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz: right on. Good job. So they are the soldiers who do the heavy lifting in combat. They are trained to kill. Okay. Mm-hmm , that's, that's their primary job. So if you put in 11 Bravo in the military crosswalk, it will come up with all kinds of civilian jobs that the overall training, not just how to carry a gun, how to shoot a gun mm-hmm , but how to manage your workforce, how to take care of your equipment, how to communicate all these things.

The KSAs are all spilled out. Mm-hmm for the kinds of, uh, for the kinds of jobs that the 11 Bravo will be, uh, eligible for. And the one that's right at the top of the list is a development, a, a training and development manager. Hm. Right. And, uh, and so I encourage every HR or every, every interviewing board mm-hmm or individual to look at the military skills translator, if you can figure out from the resume, what their military job was, it, and it even identifies by branch of service mm-hmm and, and look at the KSAs and prepare questions to lead that job candidate in the interview process so that they maybe will be better at describing what, uh, what their job was. Another, another big distinction of between military and civilian culture is there's no, I in team. All right. Military people are. Historically, usually horrible at self-promotion mm-hmm . Okay. So if you come prepared with questions that, that pulls the information out of them a little bit to, you know, if they're not doing a good job, the, the military skills translator will help you do that.

And again, don't be surprised. If they don't initiate small talk, right? Yep. Yep. They see, they see you as a, a person of authority, a person who has, you know, a, a, a lot of power to decide their future. And so they're probably gonna be pretty nervous. 

Garrett Jestice: Yeah. Excellent tips, man. These are just great tools that I think all of us should get more familiar with and use so we can be veteran ready.

So as we, as we get close to the end here, one, one thing I wanna circle back to is you kind of mentioned at the very beginning, uh, um, some of the benefits of hiring veterans and one of them specifically on their loyalty and retention. So, you know, what are some specific things. Organizations companies can do to be more veteran ready when it comes to retention of the military population for those who already work for them. 

Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz: Well for a employee retention starts before they start the job. Right. Mm-hmm . Right. Yep. Um, something just as simple as making sure that the new veteran hire knows what to wear the first day of work so that they feel comfortable. I, I, I, I, I can't tell you how often my soldier has said to me not to go to work, but just to live life in social functions, honey, what do I wear?

Yeah, honey. Right. It's just, I mean, that's, that's not probably uncommon generally, but he's very hypersensitive to it because he doesn't wanna stick out and right. He's just not aware of those things. Right. Okay. So a a very, I recommend a year long onboarding process and one that's not in our language, just pencil whipped, right.

Mm-hmm one that is, uh, taken with sincerity. and dynamic and, uh, people, you know, wanna be involved and do the jobs. I recommend that there is a civilian and a military mentor where the new hire can go and ask questions. And, you know, just, you know, open door policies, cuz there's so many, you know, we're very, we're used to highly structured environments.

And when you wear a uniform, when you wear a uniform, you know, just about everything about that person, mm-hmm and, and you know how to make decisions, you know, what the policies and procedures are and, you know, uh, civilian life just isn't like that it's much looser and much more informal. So they're gonna have a lot of questions.

And then the other really important thing is to have a way to bring the veterans together to offer support to one another mm-hmm , but also to provide them a voice. And now of course we all know about ERGs or affinity groups or, you know, business ERGs, whatever you wanna call 'em mm-hmm . And so larger companies, most of them have veteran employee resource groups, but if you're a small company and you have, you know, let's say you know, 50 employees and you have say you're lucky enough to have 10 veterans, right? Mm-hmm well, allow those veterans an opportunity to get together and, you know, uh, tell war stories or just stories in general, right? Yeah. Encourage them to bond and then, uh, you know, encourage them to grow, give them leadership training.

Mm-hmm um, to connect them with mentors, expect them to advance, have advance procedures advancement policies, because again, Military people know how to advance in the military and they're used to that. And then when they offer you feedback, please consider that feedback seriously. Mm-hmm because generally speaking, uh, they, they, they wanna make a difference.

They wanna help and they want the company to succeed and they're proud to contribute. 

Garrett Jestice: Yeah. Makes sense, Kathy, this has been such an excellent conversation. I could probably continue for another 30, 40 minutes on this, cuz there's so many great insights that you share with us today. You know, unfortunately I know we're, we're getting close on time, but really appreciate you joining and sharing some of these tips to help organizations be more veteran ready employers. And so as we get close to the end and kind of wrap up here, one question I do like to ask all of our guests is just, what's one thing that you would recommend that our listeners do this week to help improve their HR people functions 

Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz: start getting familiar with the veteran community and.

Reach out to veteran neighbors and other military people and try to start a relationship with them so that you feel more comfortable. 

Garrett Jestice: Yeah, that's great. Excellent tip. I'd encourage everyone to do that. I have some, some neighbors I need to go talk to this week. Get to know 'em a little bit better. 

Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz: Nice.

Tell me how that goes. I'm serious. I'd love to hear about your experience. Okay. 

Garrett Jestice: I will. Yeah. Yeah, I will. Well, Kathy, thank you again for joining us today and sharing some of your insights. If there are listeners who want to learn more about working with you about your book, or maybe they have follow up questions on something we talked about today, what's the best way for them to get in contact with you?

Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz: I invite anybody who's listening to go to my website There is a veteran ready assessment, an employer veteran ready assessment on there that's absolutely free of charge. Just go under the hiring, uh, space. And then I'd love to do a 30 minute consultation with you to explore where you're at on the continuum and, uh, see how I might be able to be supportive in the future.

My email is and I, of course really encourage you to take a look at, to, to, to buy, to get the book mm-hmm and, and just, you know, familiarize yourself with the ideas, the concepts and absorb. I think it's chapter four, all focused on employers, some of the, the tactics and tips that will really help you succeed with your veteran hires, because guess what your company's going to fare well. And your company's going to be stronger when you truly become a veteran champion employer. 

Garrett Jestice: Excellent. Well, Kathy, thank you again so much for sharing some of your tips with us today, and we hope you have a great rest of the day. 

Kathy Lowrey Gallowitz: Thanks, Garrett. Appreciate all you're doing. Thanks.
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